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Butcher
#1
       
Hi All:

This is the PT version of the Butcher. Chose it because I like the addition of GP topping to the wing. Found the teal to be a bit truculent, not wanting to lay properly. The hook is a Wm. Blacker 8/0. Unfortunately the finish came off in the vise. Used plastic as pictured to protect it. Does anyone have other suggestions to protect the hooks? The plastic has generally been effective in the past.

Best,
Dave
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#2
Totally great fly Dave!!! re the finish. It looks like you didn't put the shank into the jaws far enough (as far as possible) to spread the area in the jaws over a wider distance. When this happens, we tend to overtighten the jaws and get the compression damage you have there. A round item (hook) against a flat area is like a knife and will cut the surface of the hook. Tighten the jaws just enough to hold the hook. What plastic are you using? I recommend the rather thick plastic that bakeries put rolls or doughnuts in. You need to compress the plastic a couple times a fresh piece of the plastic so it forms around the hook shank to keep it in place.
Happy Trails!

Ronn Lucas, Sr.
ronnlucassr.com
ronn@ronnlucassr.com
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#3
First I agree with Ronn regarding the fly...very nice. The bigger they are the tougher to get right.

Plastic...again I agree with Ronn. I am a bit of a nut on the subject based on my extensive experimentation with different types. I finally settled on the stuff that is used in molded packaging...specifically for batteries. Here is what qualifies me as a nut on this...using a micrometer Cool Cool  I determined the plastic in the .011" to .015" thickness range works best...and better too thick than too thin. The thinner stuff for the smaller hooks and thicker on up the scale of hook size. I think for something in that 8/0 range you might use .017" or even .019" thickness. And like Ronn said...as DEEP into the jaws as possible!!!
Petri Heil,
George
The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits - Albert Einstein
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#4
Oh man, i'm ready to go off, but i'll refrain. This in regards to the hook and the finish. I'll never understand how cheap hooks can withstand a vises pressure, yet the nice hooks we tie on fail ? Makes zero sense to me. I have loads of Partridge code N hooks. Never had a marred finish, ever. Yet the artisinal hooks i use are so fragile, it's ridiculous. What i did was i sold my Renzetti and bought a Cotarelli. Best decision i ever made. No more damage. Nice looking fly, by the way
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#5
I use thick plastic, pieces I cut from a Partridge hook package. The plastic is somewhat brittle but had been working to date. I definitely don't put the hooks deep, that's probably the problem. Maybe a softer plastic too? Thank's for the advice.
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#6
Thicker plastic. You need the stuff kid toys are packaged in.
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#7
Here are some cheap machine made hooks with bullet proof finishes! Not so much...……..


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Happy Trails!

Ronn Lucas, Sr.
ronnlucassr.com
ronn@ronnlucassr.com
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#8
I use the plastic from a pillow box (remember those things you'd get at a wedding with those shitty candy-covered almonds inside? yeah. those.)...
but I also use a bit of business card first. hook, card, plastic. never had a issue. never had an issue with ronn's hooks either. ever.

cheers,
shawn
the difference between art and a hobby is you can plagiarise for a hobby.


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#9
As usual some subjects create strong opinions...and on this one I most definitely disagree with Matt (Honyuk96). He and I have discussed this before and we agree to disagree...but that's part of the fun to me Wink

I started on these flies using Gaelic-Supreme hooks and quickly learned the finish could be damaged if not protected properly...lesson learned. I guess it was around 2014 +or- I ordered a few hooks from Ronn and once I put one in the vise and tied on it...nothing was ever the same...and I tie on his hooks all the time at this point...with no finish issues. My "lesson learned" allowed me to tie on Ronn's or Gordeaux's hooks for instance without damage to the finish. It was a matter of just the right amount of pressure (experience helps), the right kind of plastic and a bit of TLC.

I've done this for how many years now and on the following vises...an HMH-TRV, Renzetti Presentation 2004, Renzetti Master Series and just for the hell of it on my old Thompson Model A Professional...and with only one finish mishap. That was MY FAULT as I experimented with the various vises and how they worked with the plastic...along with learning what to do or what not to do!!

When all is said and done I believe it is possible to tie on your hook of your choice and without any worries about damage to the finish by using a bit of common sense and the right protective material, your favorite vise and like I said...some tender loving care.

Something tells me I just may get a call from Matt today Exclamation Exclamation  HA HA HA HA
Petri Heil,
George
The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits - Albert Einstein
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#10
Dave: I really like this not too often seen, PT Butcher pattern. I think the hook complements your dressing very well and enjoy watching your evident progress

dave
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